Thursday, February 26, 2009

What Would You Do?

Poker Stars NL event
Too many players

Early on the software gave me pocket Aces which turned into 4 Aces. How many times have I had 4 Aces in a card room--I think maybe once, probably never. But this is online poker, which is not really all that random.

I also knew from playing online that usually when the software gives a big hand like that early on, it will punish you later.

I was the chip leader at my table early on with $7,000.

With $30-$60 blinds. I raised under the gun with Q-J to $150.

Another player re-raised to $370.

The BB called, as did I.

There was $1,040 in the pot.

The flop was A-K-10 with 2 spades. I didn't have a spade.

I checked my straight, the re-raiser bet $700.

The BB called.

What would you do?

Question 1: What did my opponents have?

The re-raiser either had two pair A-K, or a set of Aces or Kings.

The quick call from the BB probably meant he had a flush draw.

The pot was about $2,440.

Question #2: Do you want to see the turn?

I wanted to get at least the flush draw out of the hand.

I moved all-in--which was a huge over-sized bet.

Two quick calls....

The raiser had A-A.

The BB spade flush draw.

The turn was another spade, and he won with the flush.

Question 3: Would you do anything different?

I would not change a thing except for the outcome. I don't mind getting all-in with the best hand on the flop.

Oh--the player with the pocket Aces, he called me an idiot for calling his pre-flop re-raise.


OhCaptain said...

It's a tough hand, but I don't think the software was out to punish you either :-)

You did have the nuts as of the flop, but by having 3 people in the hand, you were almost assured to have a flush draw call you there no matter what. AA was going to call there two, but if I'm the AA, I assume I'm on a full house draw and probably not ahead.

To be honest, I'd muck QJ most of the time in a tournament if I'm at a full table and in the cut off. It just gets you into trouble.

OhCaptain said...

I think I just said cut off in that last comment, I meant under the gun....sorry.

Waz said...

The studies I've seen indicate, at least for the major poker rooms, they are random deals. You just see a LOT more hands then live. I play with a group of friends about 11 times a year. In the last 22 games I've seen 2 royal flushes, quad aces, and quad k's two times. Percentage wise that's way way more than what I've seen online in the last 1000 games.

If quad aces got busted on Pokerstars the amount of griping about the rigged dealing would be massive. Yet quad aces got busted in the WSOP this year, no one griped about a dishonest deck there.

I think it's just perceptions skewed by the massive number of hands you get to play. Then again I've already been wrong once this year.

I like your line on the hand. Well played.

Pipedream said...

I love your posts but the ones about the software and the matrix bother me.

Anywho, I don't play this hand UTG this early in the tournament. I also like to make my raises 3-4xBB until the 50/100 level and then I'll switch to a 2.5x so those are the first two things I would do differently.

We are missing some information to get a clear line to take on this. We know your stack size, but how about your opponents?

We flopped the nutz so I don't think getting it in on the flop is horrible but it's more likely I take a different line given stack sizes. As played not horrible, you got unlucky.

Brian said...

I've been in this type of situation, many times. What I've come to learn is that I'm almost never folding the hand on the flop, but that a check-call line, especially given the size of your stack, is usually better.

Since you are obviously in against at a flush draw, there's almost no chance that check-raise, all in, will get the flush draw to fold on the flop. Unless calling the flop bet will make the pot so large that you can't give improper pot odds to get the flush draw to lay down with a push on the turn, assuming the flush doesn't immediately get there, going all-in on the flop ends up being the higher variance play, IMO.

Online (far more than live), people just don't lay down flush draws on the flop, no matter what they have to call off. But, when they brick on the turn and have to call off everything with one card to come, that gets a lot more of the fish to fold, especially if they can fold and still have decent chips.

As for the hand, I don't mind the UTG aggression, but would rather see you make that play when there are antes to steal, as well. And the call of the re-raise is fine, especially once the BB cold calls the 3-bet, in front of you.

Mitchell said...


I agree with you.

For another reason as well. Once the player with the set calls, the player with the flush draw is getting the right pot odds to call.

If it was heads-up, it would be an awful play on his part but again, you are right, online he will most likely call.


Chance47 said...

I cannot imagine what the guy calling you an idiot was hoping to achieve other than perhaps pushing you to tilt. He didn't raise enough to even chase out the BB so why would he expect that you would have given it up? In general I think chat like that only shows everyone else at the table how poorly he handles having Aces cracked... revealing a weakness that keeping quiet would not have shown. Hopefully if you responded at all then you just typed "?" at then nothing else; let him figure out what it means!

Mitchell said...

The second time he commented, I did reply.

I told him that he should have made a bigger re-raise since he priced me in. Frankly, though, a bigger re-raise would have gotten the other player to fold. I would not have folded. I was the chip leader and he was in 2nd place at the table.

I would have called a bigger re-raise given that the implied odds were so favorable.

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